I apologize for being so late to reply to the criticism here, (it’s been a heavy weekend). I’m always happy to debate and justify my actions and meet up with anyone interested to talk about what I am doing.
Amusingly over this I been accused, of being everything that is wrong with the guild, which is faintly ridiculous. Being as my critics point out “a tiny minority” who can only take up minutes of a guild council time in meetings that for lasts hours and hours. I’m impressed that I manage to singly ruin everything that is good.
I wouldn’t disagree that the situation doesn't immediately affect students, beyond the decrease in the service to students that the reforms to the royal mail would entail.
However The longer term of affects of the postal workers losing the strike are far grimmer than a slightly decreased service. The loss of paid hours, the loss of safeguards guaranteeing welfare in the British workplace will affect our generation in the near future.
We should support the postal workers and other workers in their fight for fair hours, fair pay and decent and safe conditions, because we as students are about to enter this very same work place.
I would contest the fact that this is meaningless gesture, the royal mail want to advertise 30,000 temporary positions; strike breaking workers, these jobs will be advertised at the guild. Although it may be the easy thing to take these jobs now, doing so would directly undermine the CWU and could come back to haunt us later when we enter a far poorer workplace.
So I’m fighting to protect the interest of a select political minority am I? In your writing steven you've shown your true colours “an environment very few Graduates would be entering I would guess” , there will many students around the entire country who will, you may be lucky at a well off and affluent university taking part in elite politics at the guild of students. I’m happy to be taking flak from people like you, people who are only interested with the immediate needs of their own elite group.
As for BAE, are you kidding? What about students worldwide the victims of this company? By supporting it we are supporting its actions and as a student union we have duty to support other students were ever they are in the world be it Coventry or Riyadh.
Frankly if these are your opinions I think you should reconsider being in a union because it entails mutual aid and working together. Not the kind of self interested, “we only care about ourselves” syndicalism in which we are constantly played off against each other to mutual detriment.
Leaving Counter-Strike behind
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Last year I wrote a post about how I needed to take some time out, due to
me developing physical anxiety symptoms. It’s fair to say that many things
got on...
9 months ago
Posts
I am the only student to see a similarity between our distinguished EEO and Nick Griffen?
ReplyDeleteIn a blog post reminiscent of Question Time, instead of answering the question and replying properly as he should do, he begans to personally attack the other poster.
What right does the EEO have to say that any student should not be part of this union because he might express a differing political opinion which is in no way extremist?
I was under the impression that the EEO wanted this blog to be, unlike the others apparently, a place for discussion and debate where students need not fear reprisal for airing their views. Instead, the EEO is making personal attacks on the students he should in fact be representing.
With the greatest of respect, I wouldn't call the Roleplay Society a politically elite group.
ReplyDelete"Frankly if these are your opinions I think you should reconsider being in a union because it entails mutual aid and working together."
ReplyDeleteI think our EEO should follow his own advice and begin closer to home - by working with his fellow officers instead of what appears to be a vendetta against them.
Am I misreading part of this argument, or are you saying that an environment that Engineering and Physics students (who you are supposed to represent amongst others) might go in to is worth less than another and so is not deserving of the support that you seem hellbent on giving other workers and their unions?
ReplyDeleteI would like to post my name along with this, but after seeing how vitriolic and personal your attacks are in dealing with people who do not choose "anonymous" there is no way I am.
Would Mr Bauer have been willing to support the rights for the Union representing the workers at the oil refinery in Grimsby in late January?
ReplyDeleteTaking into account his extensive actions against oil companies in particular, I would be truly astonished if he would so much as lift a finger in support of any representative of such a company.
Immaturity, selfish actions, bias and verbal assault are all the traits that Mr Bauer has displayed in such abundance. He has made a mockery of the guild and brought disgrace upon himself as EEO.
Should Mr Bauer be allowed to misrepresent those that he is supposed to support?
Should Mr Bauer be allowed to display such senseless aggression and not be held to account?
Should Mr Bauer be allowed to continue to abuse and exploit his role as EEO?
These are all questions that must be addressed if the Guild Council is to have an EEO that fair, just and honest.
I would like to see Ed answer some of these questions as I support a lot of his positions, if not for the same reasons...but the idea that he is being 'aggressive' or 'vitriolic' is amusingly hysterical. And comparing him to Nick Griffin?! Have you met either of them or even understand where they are coming from?! This all just sounds like that other 'tiny minority' in the Guild - the hacks - have been challenged and don't like it very much. Some of the posters here also seem to show a very simple understanding of labor relations and unionism. It is not impossible to lobby against a company but also support its workers. Indeed, where done properly, this is often done with the support of workers who usually have a much more nuanced appreciation of their role in society than those who would characterize them as a docile pliant pool of labor forming their identities out of loyalty and obedience to their mother companies.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I agree with most of the above comments; yes students should stand side by side with students around the world but Mr. Bauer you have been chosen to represent students at the University of Birmingham and you have to make sure that you are not just pursuing your own interests.
ReplyDeleteYes and he was elected by those students he now represents. Edd's election campaign was very clear about what his activities would entail so it is unfair to accuse him of pursuing his own interests.
ReplyDeleteTaking a step back from the events since last guild council, things seem to have really got out of hand. Some really shocking and upsetting things have been said about Edd and about people who support him. In Guild Council, on blogs, blog posts and tweets I’ve seen and heard the terms ‘loony left’, ‘eco twats’, ‘Nick Griffin’, ‘immature’ and ‘selfish’ amongst many other insults which remind me of nothing more than schoolyard bullying.
The criticisms Edd has received are from people who do not share the same ethical and environmental concerns as those who are prepared to dedicate their lives to campaigning for the cause. I agree entirely with what Edd said in Guild Council that in many ways the EEO post could be treated as a liberation post. Sadly, it is undeniable that it is a minority of students who are prepared to campaign for ethical and environmental issues. Minority issues, rightly so, have not been pushed off the agenda in our union as we have liberation officers: officers who represent a minority of students. People would not so freely make abusive comments at the other officers about the people they represent. This academic year seems to have got off to a bad start in terms of accepting a climate of intolerance towards views that aren’t mainstream. And it’s gone past just intolerance- it’s become malice.
A friend of mine who had attended Guild Council told me afterwards that she felt intimidated by what had gone on and had felt unable to express herself due to the cat calling and general nastiness of some people in the chamber. Is this what we want, for people to feel alienated and upset to the extent that they do not want to participate in our democratic process?
Yes, we won’t all agree but why not be nice about it?!
'Why not be nice about it?!' Are you kidding? Putting up with all these reactionaries is par for the cause. And I'm not sure about liberal greens being persecuted as a minority ... their views have slowly been normalised across government and wider society, you could argue its now the defacto left ideology ... and its started to cause some huge problems. There is nothing emancipatory in liberating 'liberal ethical greens' when they are such an important part of the discourse of modern capitalism. No , let there be conflict, and let these people continue to delude themselves that their ideology of cynicism is populism perfected. And let them continue to troll these message boards and make ridiculous statements in guild council, at least then they will be contained to an extent. Whats more important is that you don't become contained by it as well.
ReplyDeletethere is no reason why this level of personal attack should be par for the course in a student's union!
ReplyDeletethere will always be conflicting interests in the guild- and thats why there are meant to be people to represent all points of view. if there are so many students from engineering etc who want to see BAE on campus, im sure their student rep will represent accordingly in GC, and those that don't agree have the EEO to fight for them. and hey, they might never agree. but still, conflict is great- debate should encourage the distribution of information, new ideas- but this amount of abuse? we have a no-platform policy for people like the BNP to make our students feel welcome and safe in their guild...but there are individuals here who are being just as hateful.
edd is *environmental and ethical* officer- why is it surprising that he wants to provide more information about the negative impacts of an oil company, or promote the idea of unionising? the job title says it all!
the bureacracy and formality, and the unwillingness to make a bold political statement, of the guild goes against all the passion, creativity and dedication that makes student politics good. so someone got a bit heated in a meeting, and apologised. its guild council...everyone chill out! we can retain that passion without lowering ourselves to the jeering and booing of our Parliament, the playground politics that i hope many would agree is unhelpful and unnecessary.
the woman's officer has done sweet f.a. during her few months in the post..i'd be more annoyed at her lack of action than the EEO's over-enthusiastic approach to his role!
I don’t mind the insults.... usually but the nick griffin. That one actually got to me a bit. I’m sorry I clearly expressed myself a little too strongly, what I meant to imply was that much of the logic of the argument goes against much of the logic of unionism, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways a lot of this is good it is the meaningful political debate at some of higher levels of the guild and I’m very happy to take part in it.
I certainly don’t have a vendetta against the officers and I’m sorry you wish to remain anonymous, you certainly won’t ever be threatened physically or verbally by me I may criticise your arguments but you will never hear anything like ....
“you should kill them all. Ethically.”, "In fact the majority of students are happy to allow cluster bomb companies to be funded so they can thrown at you!", “can they have him executed please? just for me?”
.... from me
I’m certainly not “hell bent” on giving all that Birmingham students have to others, clearly that’s not the case.
I was entirely behind the Grimsby workers; their strike in many ways has many similarities to the postal strike and its relation to us. The Grimsby workers were having their jobs being outsourced to another country with cheaper labour. They were forced to either accept a lower quality of life or lose their jobs. Two Different groups were competing for who would work for the lowest wage.
The foreign labourers by accepting those jobs were gaining in the short term, however by accepting those jobs they undermined the Grimsby workers in their fight for a fair wage and helped drive down wages and conditions nationally workers, something which will affect them and other workers in the long term.
students shouldn’t be used and played off against the postal workers by the government and the royal mail by taking and supporting the advertising of those jobs to students we help drive down wages and conditions for all.
Yes I did choose to represent students however those same students have provided me with a considerable amount of guidance as to what they want the EEO to do. As should be clear from my blog, that raising awareness about the plight of the victims of the arms trade and the casualties of oil exploitation are just a small part of what I’m doing and I would point out that students have voted for a part of the EEO roles to be to raise awareness of ethical and environmental issues on campus.
I think I’m doing the job of carrying forward all my mandates and election promises to students well, is there a mandate that you think I’m not working for?
I think you are doing such a good job and people are being disgusting. I have to agree with Lizzy that the name calling is sickening and immature and this massive block vote bullying has to stop. You were voted in for a reason and I hope you know there are still plenty of people out there who think your commitment and dedication is amazing even if you were a bit out of hand at the last gc.
ReplyDelete@ lizzy, you say that Ed was elected on a manifesto and therefore he is not pursuing his own interests, but what percentage of the student body voted for him, and hell just even voted in the officer elections?
ReplyDeleteThere isn't a single officer in the guild who can legitimately claim to have the backing of the student body as for the most part they couldn't give a shit, as demonstrated by the abysmal turn out during said elections.
This is one of my problems with Guild Council, for all we say ' yes lets get people invovled with the running of the guild and the university!' the only reason anyone turns up outside of the Council Clique that actively want to be there is because the rest of us ( Societies etc) are FORCED to go there despite the fact for the most part almost nothing is passed which actually concerns us.
You want people to be involved in the guild decision making? Then make the decisions being made directly relevant to them.
@ The EEO
'what I meant to imply was that much of the logic of the argument goes against much of the logic of unionism, in my opinion.'
Then may I suggest in future you word yourself more carefully and don't, in future, go about calling your constituents evil capitalists, which is essentially what you did when you stated I was showing my ' true colours'.
What I take most offence from your comments Ed is not that you were saying that I shouldn't be a part of a union, though the fact that a guild elected officer should even state anything that could be insinuated as such is reprehensible in my mind, but that you were basing you're statement on minimal information and personally attacked *me* and not what you percieved to be my ideology.
Based upon one or two comments on your blog you labelled me as essentially a member of the capitalist oppressors within the bourgeoisie and went on to say that I have a basically a ' couldn't give a shit about the rest of the world' attitude, seemingly based upon the fact that I had a different opinion to you.
I'm relieved to hear you say that you weren't suggesting that I shouldn't be a member of the union, but that doesn't change the fact that you made insinuations against me which are pure conjecture and, to be quite honest, which I find offensive.
what right do you have to declare someone else to be a part of a corpoate syndicalist ideology and then go on to state how that persons belief are inherently wrong?
Whilst I'm not a corporate syndicalist the fact that you responded to me in a way which suggested a 'holier than thou' attitude where you're views are correct and anyone that challenges you is wrong is disgusting.
NO ELECTED OFFICER OF THE GUILD SHOULD EVER VOCALISE SUCH VIEWS.
You can believe it, but when you turn around to one of your constituents and actively state that they are wrong, don't back it up with a logical argument and just go on to insinuate that they are everything that's wrong with the world, you cross the line.
I hope that there won't be a repeat of anything like this with you again,and that in future you choose your words more carefully and drop any hint of that ' I'm right and therefore you're wrong' if you don't agree with me attitude.
"“you should kill them all. Ethically.”, "In fact the majority of students are happy to allow cluster bomb companies to be funded so they can thrown at you!", “can they have him executed please? just for me?”"
ReplyDeleteYeh, sorry for some of these. But since you follow my tweets you'll know that it's pretty much par for a course consisting of the utmost verbal diahorria. Be assured nothing personal or sincere was meant by it - otherwise it would be sheer hypocrisy from myself, a person who loathes personal attacks within the blogosphere. But that's Twitter for you - utter unmitigated bullshit of the highest order.
"smokers, you should all die! my hair stinks, and frenchy is in the shower using all the hot water. Die now. Painfully."
and
"I hounded my questioning subconcious into a dark alley and beat him to death. Some hate crimes are worth committing."
being cases in point.
Anyhow, point is no genuine offence was meant by it and I hope none was taken. Chances are I wouldn't have written it if I'd known anyone to whom it could be applicable were reading. Honestly, I detest ad hominum arguments. The blogosphere is a nasty place, it doesn't need me to make it nastier.
And for all those who attack/criticise Ed whilst posting anonymously, why? He's hardly going to have you dragged from your beds and shot. Even I wouldn't do that, and I'm a fascist.
The hysterics continue! "NO ELECTED OFFICER OF THE GUILD SHOULD EVER VOCALISE SUCH VIEWS." - and reading your post these 'views' basically consist of disagreeing with *you* on the basis of what you have said, which has been pretty ridiculous and so seems fair enough. I'm not sure on what basis he isn't allowed to disagree with you? My MP would disagree with me on pretty much everything but that isn't the basis for what I consider to be his illegitimate position. And he is elected by a significant minority of people in my community! The Guild is a private organisation constituted in a certain way. If you want to determine what it is and does you have to be involved in it. If such an organisation is setup to basically prevent people like you from doing that, then that is a separate issue and you might be inclined, as I am, to think we need some new organisations for students in this country. All you can do is do what Ed has done, otherwise I dont really see anything wrong with saying that you dont belong as a member of an organisation are fundamentally at odds with. Where its all gone a bit wrong with student unions in this country is that people believe effective representation for students is something they are entitled to (well, it has sort of been institutionalized in the education act in the most tame form), and not something they have to fight for. This plays right into the hands of those who often dominate the unions who don't want an awful lot to change (or even think its better that students become customers - in the most limited economic sense you could imagine - and not have any say). If you really cared about representing students I would recommend you dont participate in the guild! there are much more effective ways of doing it.
ReplyDeleteThis Steven guy is truly hysterical edd, you’ve got to ignore him. He been baiting you from the go clearly and is just trying get a Reponses out of you which can be construed as attacks on him, which he will then try and again bait you for.
ReplyDeleteI saw a lot of this tactic by the right of McCain republicans during the election of Obama last year, calling him worthless, illegal and the anti Christ etc..
@ Ben
ReplyDelete'I'm not sure on what basis he isn't allowed to disagree with you? My MP would disagree with me on pretty much everything but that isn't the basis for what I consider to be his illegitimate position.'
He is allowed to disagree with me, that's his basic democratic right.
What he shouldn't be allowed to do is turn around then declare that I am all that is evil in the world and how by not supporting his decision I am showing myself to be an evil corporate syndicalist.
Imagine if in disagreeing with your MP he turned around and verbally abused you, and implied you were what was wrong with this country. You'd be well within your rights to complain to whichever ombudsman over sees such things.
That's the main thing I'm pissed off about, how he turned around and started to use ad hominem tactics and failed to actually put forward a useful debate about why his motion should have been allowed when it didn't actively do anything to benefit students, whether the people he represents in the University of Birmingham's Student Body, or students nation wide, or indeed internationally.
'If such an organisation is set up to basically prevent people like you from doing that, then that is a separate issue and you might be inclined, as I am, to think we need some new organisations for students in this country.'
I agree we need some new form of representation, but as it stands, the current representation we have is all we've got.
Therefore for my representatives to turn around and basically imply that my opinions are worthless and that I am the source of all the worlds evil should be a condemnable action. How exactly is it justified for him to make such claims?
As for me being a member of an organisation I'm fundamentally at odds with, where exactly did I say I was at odds with the basic principles of unionism? Do I think the Guild could do its job better? Certainly, do I think that passing motions which don't have a direct effect on students and do nothing to improve the conditions of students in a meaningful manner is worthless? You're damned right I do. But at what point did I say I was against Unions and the principles of mutual aid that Bauer said I was?
He automatically assumed that as I was against his motion I was a right wing nut job capitalist whore and attacked me based upon this perception.
'If you really cared about representing students I would recommend you don't participate in the guild! there are much more effective ways of doing it.'
So your suggestion is that if we have a system and we don't like it we should not participate?
Imagine what the US would be like if Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks had sat there and said ' you know what? I dislike the way the US is due to its segregation policies, so I'm just not going to take part in this society...'
The alternative would be setting up an entire new society! A basically impractical and impossible task. Likewise for an individual like myself the setting up of a new form of student representation is too big to do alone, therefore the only option I am left with if I am to get my concerns about how students are represented is in changing the manner in which I am represented.
I can't set up an entirely new Student Union and get it taken seriously. But I can damn sure well kick up a fuss about the way The Guild is run and try to contribute to it in a way that alters the way it represents students making it fairer, more accountable and actually relevant to the general student body.
Plus what alternatives are there? Within the Unviersity of Birmingham the record of Protests actually being successful is, to be quite honest, pathetic. The Administration oft he University doesn't pay attention to protests, so why invest my efforts in an unofficial channel when I can kick up a shit storm in the official channels and possibly get thigns changed there, which will be more effective as the Guild already has connections and contacts within the Unviersity.
In other words, why build a new bridge when we can just repair the old one?
I dont see how him turning around and declaring you evil etc. is anything accept disagreeing with you more when he has said a lot of other things about your opinions. Im not sure if you are right about what would happen if MPs did this (take it from me they do)...this kind of complaint is usually systematically ignored by the parliamentary ombudsman. Your invoking the American civil rights movement is amusing considering what a huge threat it posed to the US poltical order before it was co-opted. They sought precisely the upheaval im advocating.
ReplyDeleteAnd I never said the Guild was a union or you weren't a unionist. I said it was a private organisation whose current mode of operation you seemed to be unhappy with and failing attempting to be involved and change it from inside *then* you should leave....but it sounds to me like you are at that point already from what you have said. I am at this point already. And I dont think its just protests or secondary unions which are the answer. People as individuals and in small groups successfully represent their interests to their departments and higher up all the time. Postgraduates (particularly research like myself) and people in satellite sites have a long history of doing things for themselves because of the full-time undergraduate student focus of the guild (for all the good that does). These actions can and sometimes are extended, collectivised and widened. And we badly need a union movement which will tie all this together on a national stage, now more than ever, an hour before the government announces its plans for the funding of HE, including extending the project of marketising education with a parallel increase in tuition fees. Our 'unions' are not fit for purpose. Some of the best things which go on at this university happen beyond the guild, often with the full co-operation of the university.
Why repair the old bridge when you can build a new one for a tenth of the cost and effort? etc.
I'm very sorry Steven, I really do think you should be a member of the guild and I implied my point far too strongly. I hope you were not too hurt. I don’t think you are evil either I’m sure you’re a very nice bloke. I’m very sorry Chris to you to, me and you have been doing this for a long time and certainly respect your intelligence and admire your clever responses in your arguments with me and others.
ReplyDeleteI do think the debate you are having with Ben is very interesting and I would love to see it continued. I have talked about setting up another union and I would like to emphasize that there are individuals on campus doing just that.
“Imagine what the US would be like if Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks had sat there and said ' you know what? I dislike the way the US is due to its segregation policies, so I'm just not going to take part in this society...”
I’m sure you are aware by their repeated civil disobedience e.g breaking the law and sitting on the wrong side of bus that is exactly what they were doing.